If you were give £10,000 ($17k) right now, what would you buy?

"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228) 04/18/2014 at 11:28 • Filed to: Bad Ideas

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I'd get 4 cars I've found for sale. Top-left is a gorgeous looking !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! 5-speed V8. It's not firing on one cylinder, but I'd be putting a 3.9l in there anyway. Top-right is a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Bottom-left is a suspiciously cheap !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and finally bottom right is a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with no compression on cylinder 4. All hella-cheap, and eminently fixable.

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crowmolly > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 11:33

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C5 Vette. All day.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 11:34

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I would buy this

CAR_IS_MI > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 11:38

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I like this, but with 17k I could get a decent GTV.

camaroboy68ss > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 11:38

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I would probably buy a clean 1990-1993 SS 454 Chevy pickup.

daender > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 11:54

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This AP1 S2k turbo show car for 17.5k$, sell the stupid rear stereo to get back down to 17k$, and proceed to enjoy a wicked fast S2k.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 11:57

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This looks great.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/18/2014 at 11:58

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Sheesh. Depreciation is a wonderful thing...

My hovercraft is full of eels > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 11:58

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I'd go French. A good, original condition 205 GTi for fun and a Citroen C6 for longer trips.

205

C6

Or optionally instead of the C6: a Renault Avantime (yes, an Avantime) or a Lancia Thesis with the 20V turbo engine and the blue alcantara option. Yeah, I'm a sucker for weird French/Italian luxury cars. And if it wasn't my money, I wouldn't be that worried...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 11:58

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Am I allowed to just modify my current car?

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 12:14

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To be honest? I'd probably buy a truck or body on frame SUV. I'm ruining my Focus ST on the ridiculous gravel road I'm driving on for work and I could use a tow vehicle for my lemons car.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 12:26

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I'm assuming you have a 3.9 already, or are you saying that because you'd try to keep it classic/CUX/non-GEMs ignition? If you already have one, is it an A36 block (cross-bolting bosses, crank oil pump)?

Oh, right, the question. Probably an entry-level driver Hudson Commodore.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/18/2014 at 12:28

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http://zanesville.craigslist.org/ctd/4414940403…

JR1 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 12:35

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Jaguar no contest.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/18/2014 at 12:45

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Oh great choice :) very classy

I haven't got a 3.9l lying around unfortunately, but there is one for sale 2 towns over. Fully running when pulled not too long ago for £300.

The main reason is availability and price. There's loads of them for cheap, but they've also got a reasonably easily tunable EFi system and they're very oversquare so make good performance engines.

You can pick up later GEMS ones for ~£500, but I haven't actually done the research yet on whether that extra £200 is worth it.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/18/2014 at 12:45

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By all means :) that's where most of my money goes anyway

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > My hovercraft is full of eels 04/18/2014 at 12:50

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Now those are some good choices. Big fan of the C6. Proper old-school offbeat French luxury. I don't think anyone does 'wafting to your destination in utter tranquility' better.

Very oddball choice with the Thesis though. I'd forgotten about them. I don't think I've ever seen more than one of those, and I've been to Italy a good 3 or 4 times.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/18/2014 at 12:51

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It really does doesn't it? If I had enough to buy just one of them, it'd be either this or the Rover. It's been for sale for a little while now, originally up for £4000 (too much for its condition).

It's into NP territory now. Do want.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > CAR_IS_MI 04/18/2014 at 12:52

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Which GTV? You could probably just about pick up a decent Bertone one, or get the mother of all Alfetta GTVs :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/18/2014 at 12:55

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E55 AMG for $17k? Holy Jesus Christ.

If people complain about depreciation on anything else it's unjustified. That's about $50,000 in 10 years.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 12:55

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I have, and it depends. Partly on what performance changes, if any, are undertaken, whether it's a first-version or second-version 3.9, and what one expects to have to change in parts.

Late 3.9 vs. 4.0 is mostly a difference in crank journals, rods/pistons used, and fuel system/ignition. Early 3.9s have iffier main bearing caps yet, worse oil pump, worse head gaskets, worse cam stabilization, and less-optimally tweaked for hi-po heads. That being said, some later 3.9s are allegedly more likely to get liner drops and behind-sleeve cracks - it's uncertain, and that would apply more universally to the 4.0, oddly enough.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/18/2014 at 13:04

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Ah I see. The one I'm looking at is an earlier 3.9 by the looks of things. 1993, so before they started calling it the '4.0'.

Perhaps I'll keep a lookout for a later one. I'd be wanting to get a solid 220bhp on EFi whatever it goes into; SD1, MGB GT or TR8. I'm thinking ported heads, a lumpier cam and a free-flowing exhaust system should bring me somewhere close to that.

If necessary I'd do a full rebuild before putting it into whichever car, but if that's not necessary I'd like to save a couple of quid.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/18/2014 at 13:06

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Oh, and I've heard about the block cracks on 3.9l engines before. That's making me wonder whether I should either try and find a 3.5l EFi engine, or a suitable 3.5l to convert to EFi. It should still be good to get 220bhp from one of those with a little more tuning, so it wouldn't really be a compromise.

CAR_IS_MI > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 13:08

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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 13:19

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They made the 3.9 for a while sort of in parallel with the 4.0 - my 4.2, which is basically a 3.9 with different pistons and crank, was made in '95(!), and has the late-style block, but without cross-drilling or GEMS. '93 probably makes for an earlier 3.5-style block, though. Cam fore/aft stability improvements are possible and do exist, but not as dressy as the late ones. Probably also has a dizzy-driven oil pump, which is lower capacity, also larger combustion chamber heads with less free-flowing valve setup (though that can be fixed by getting a 4.0/4.6 set used for quite cheap, or even new for not much). Reference this - only part of the book is up on Google Books, but what's there is very useful.

tromoly > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 13:20

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Lots of 1"-OD steel tubing, a set of Ohlin shocks, about a dozen yards of Carbon mat, a set of 13" wheels wrapped in Hoosier R25B 6"-wide slicks, and billet Aluminum blocks to get my FSAE-spec AutoX car built. Well, about 2/3rds built, anyways.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 13:20

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Block cracks of one kind and another occur across all large-bores to an extent, but fixes aren't absolutely bank-breaking, and if you've dodged them, you've dodged them.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > tromoly 04/18/2014 at 13:33

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Sweet :) what's the planned powerplant?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/18/2014 at 13:34

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Thanks for the link :) So by the sounds of things I'll want a later '4.0' engine if I want one on the revvier end of RV8s, and do my best to minimise block-cracking.

I thought 'oh, I'll just see how much to buy the whole book'. Turns out it's out of print, and used copies on Amazon start at £285.

Yeah. That's not happening.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 13:45

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I imagine with the right pistons, a revvy 3.9 is possible with late heads. It all comes down to how it's built, really. Late type with the ability to reinforce the main caps and a better oil pump would be nice, though.

My 4.2 I'm in a bit of a stick with re: pistons, as the 4.2 uses pistons 3mm shorter than the 3.5 and 3.9, and about 10mm taller than the 4.0 and 4.6 - so performance options may involve pulling something out of a catalog or switching rods. I want to build as-is with what I have, though, as I think I can optimize better to a fast 4.2 than a slow 4.6. I've got the "late" block 4.2, so it's solid viz cam, oil pump, ability to cross-bolt the main caps (though it isn't.. yet) and still set up to use a dizzy. Plus, the 4.2 crank is hard as nails, being from the diesel project.

I may intra-library lend the copy of the book the Indianapolis library has, if my local will do it. If so, I'll feed you relevant tidbits.

tromoly > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 13:56

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2007 Honda CBR600RR, already have it purchased, torn down, and 55% cleaned up. Hoping to get 110 horsepower when rebuilt, may eventually get Wiseco 13.5:1 compression pistons and run it on E85, basically want lots of reliable power to push a big aero package.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/18/2014 at 13:58

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I hadn't thought about piston weight. If the 3.9 ones are particularly heavy that would knock my idea of a revvy 4.0l on the head a little. Forged pistons are expensive.

Is there a reason you couldn't reuse the original pistons, or get a new standard set? It would limit your ability to increase compression with pistons, but you can probably skim the head to make up some of the difference.

Have you thought of a supercharger? I know that all-alloy engines aren't exactly perfectly suited to boost, but that 4.2 crank could certainly take the strain. Would give you a very fat torque curve as well, so you shouldn't need to rev it overly much to make really rapid progress.

I've forgotten as well, are you going with carbs or injection? If it's injection is it a modified OEM unit or aftermarket Megasquirt-type stuff. If it's the latter, I'd recommend ITBs. Partially for the performance gain, but mostly because they sound utterly unbelievable.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > tromoly 04/18/2014 at 14:02

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Dear Lord that thing's going to be a monster. Have you got access to some aero-tech to do some testing or are you going to do it by intuition?

Actually, what class will you be racing in? I'd say that's pretty much a prototype equivalent for most other motorsports.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 14:12

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The 3.9 pistons are thicker than a 4.0 by a good bit, and typically aren't offset, while the 4.0 ones are. That can be altered via the aftermarket, IIRC, but as you said...

The pistons I've got are in an engine that's supposedly done over a hundred thou. So, probably worn down past tolerance, regardless the fact that the bore probably isn't (bores are pretty long-wearing in these). Hammill says several times that the stock pistons are the weak point for high revs, so while a new standard set would help, it wouldn't be perfect. If I can figure out what TVR used in their 4.3 (same crank, same block), it'd likely be ideal. The head is possible to skim, to be sure, and I can also kick up compression by going to the tin gasket or a thinner composite one - as the heads I've got use a thicker gasket to get 8.94:1. Standard-bowled pistons with a tin gasket would give me about 9.6:1.

I decided against supercharging, as much due to weight and heat as anything else - not even to mention a good way to find weak links in the setup. North of 250 at the crank is easily within grasp without, so I figure why be greedy?

I ran down a list of throttle bodies based on availability and cost, ran the numbers on intake size, and ended up choosing the throttle bodies from a Honda CBR600, x2. I came to find out, some other mad bastard has done it on a Rover before me:

Megasquirt or equivalent, naturally. Probably have the ITBs reverse of how you see them here.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/18/2014 at 14:33

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Sweet :) that thing's going to be a bit of a monster. I'd expect something more akin to 280bhp+ from a 4.2 with 9.6:1 compression and ITBs. That MGB GT V8 I posted a couple of weeks ago was 248bhp with just a breathed-on 3.9l.

Speaking of TVRs, I was behind a Chimaera on the way back from work today. Number plate read 'L0UD'. It was not lying in the slightest :) That itself was trailing a bright orange Sagaris.

Our insurance rates might suck, but sometimes it's excellent living in the UK :)

If I come across any info on the Chimaera or Griffith 430 I'll let you know.

JEM > crowmolly 04/18/2014 at 14:43

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Whoa. That was going to be my answer as well. I'd love to have one for the nice weather highway commuting car but I don't really want to spend over $10K which they all seem to go for.

tromoly > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 14:45

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I'm doing research on aero design on the side of my Engineering degree, learning about CFD, eventually (read: when I have a job and make money) will correlate CFD data to real numbers to get the simulation error.

It would actually run in the FSAE class for SCCA, they added it a few years ago so that schools (read: UT-Arlington) could show up to SCCA Solo II Nationals and not be thrown into A-Mod, where the cars don't exactly fit up anyways. If you really want to see monsters look up A-Mod cars, they can run sliding skirts (banned in FSAE), any engine (read: 200+ horsepower), massive aero packages, and are about twice as heavy as an FSAE car.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 14:46

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The best part is that with my Jag final drive, I'll be hitting peak hp in drive at over 130. Wait, is that the best part? I'm not sure any situation in which I'm dying screaming in a 60s econo-tin can is necessarily the best part.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/18/2014 at 15:09

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I think the bit just before you die should be pretty thrilling :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > tromoly 04/18/2014 at 15:31

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Those look like serious business, but your little machine will be pretty serious too. What sort of aero mods are allowed? I suppose they'd have to be quite aggressive whatever they are to work at the low speeds encountered at AutoX events.

tromoly > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 15:39

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No sucker cars (Brabham BT46B-style), no sliding skirts / nothing can touch the ground aside from tires, cannot run wheel pods blocking front wheels, must be "open wheel-style" vehicle. Aside from that it's pretty open, front/rear wings, undertray/diffuser, ground effects, all that kind of stuff.

Here's a few examples of FSAE cars:

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > tromoly 04/18/2014 at 16:09

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Sweet :) they're a lot more aero-heavy than the FSAE cars I was looking at a couple of years back.

I wonder if there's any little tricks you could crib from F1 technology. I'm not sure what, but

Actually, I saw somewhere something about variable camber steering . Basically as you turn the wheel, it's connected to a linkage that moves the top of the strut (in a McPherson strut setup), and varies the camber as you turn.

Just seeing if I can think of something that would give you a little edge.

tromoly > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/18/2014 at 16:14

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Added complexity, weight, and packaging issues. Also from what I've been reading is that tires used in FSAE settings are largely camber-insensitive, plus you get camber gain from caster as it is so if the suspension geometry is designed well I don't see a need for that type of system.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > tromoly 04/18/2014 at 16:51

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Yeah, I did wonder why it wasn't more widely adopted if it's not flawed.